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hawkwing_lb) wrote2012-09-29 04:50 pm
hawkwing_lb) wrote2012-09-29 04:50 pm
Plato, Apology 20d-21d
[20δ] ταυτί μοι δοκεῖ δίκαια λέγειν ὁ λέγων, κἀγὼ ὑμῖν πειράσομαι ἀποδεῖξαι τί ποτ᾽ ἐστὶν τοῦτο ὃ ἐμοὶ πεποίηκεν τό τε ὄνομα καὶ τὴν διαβολήν. ἀκούετε δή. καὶ ἴσως μὲν δόξω τισὶν ὑμῶν παίζειν: εὖ μέντοι ἴστε, πᾶσαν ὑμῖν τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἐρῶ. ἐγὼ γάρ, ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι, δι᾽ οὐδὲν ἀλλ᾽ ἢ διὰ σοφίαν τινὰ τοῦτο τὸ ὄνομα ἔσχηκα. ποίαν δὴ σοφίαν ταύτην; ἥπερ ἐστὶν ἴσως ἀνθρωπίνη σοφία: τῷ ὄντι γὰρ κινδυνεύω ταύτην εἶναι σοφός. οὗτοι δὲ τάχ᾽ ἄν, οὓς ἄρτι
It seems to me that the one who says these things speaks justly, and I'll try to show you what this thing is, which has made name-calling and slander for me. So, listen. And maybe I will seem to some of you to be joking: but indeed know very well, I will speak the whole truth to you. For I, O Athenian men, through nothing else but through a sort of wisdom have acquired this reputation. Well, what sort of wisdom is this? Well, maybe it's a sort of wisdom about human affairs: I have a chance of being wise in respect to this.
οὗτοι δὲ τάχ᾽ ἄν, οὓς ἄρτι [20ε] ἔλεγον, μείζω τινὰ ἢ κατ᾽ ἄνθρωπον σοφίαν σοφοὶ εἶεν, ἢ οὐκ ἔχω τί λέγω: οὐ γὰρ δὴ ἔγωγε αὐτὴν ἐπίσταμαι, ἀλλ᾽ ὅστις φησὶ ψεύδεταί τε καὶ ἐπὶ διαβολῇ τῇ ἐμῇ λέγει. καί μοι, ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι, μὴ θορυβήσητε, μηδ᾽ ἐὰν δόξω τι ὑμῖν μέγα λέγειν: οὐ γὰρ ἐμὸν ἐρῶ τὸν λόγον ὃν ἂν λέγω, ἀλλ᾽ εἰς ἀξιόχρεων ὑμῖν τὸν λέγοντα ἀνοίσω. τῆς γὰρ ἐμῆς, εἰ δή τίς ἐστιν σοφία καὶ οἵα, μάρτυρα ὑμῖν παρέξομαι τὸν θεὸν τὸν ἐν Δελφοῖς. Χαιρεφῶντα γὰρ ἴστε που. οὗτος
And these men present, who I spoke concerning just now, they could be wise in some wisdom greater than human, or I haven't got what I'm saying: for I at least don't know it, but whoever says so lies and speaks slander against me. And don't you be uproaring at me, O Athenian men, even if I seem to you to say something big: for I will not while speaking say a story which is mine, but I will bring up to you a more worthy speaker. For of my [wisdom], if indeed it is any kind of wisdom, I will hand over to you as witness the god, the one in Delphi. For you doubtless know Chairephon.
[21α] ἐμός τε ἑταῖρος ἦν ἐκ νέου καὶ ὑμῶν τῷ πλήθει ἑταῖρός τε καὶ συνέφυγε τὴν φυγὴν ταύτην καὶ μεθ᾽ ὑμῶν κατῆλθε. καὶ ἴστε δὴ οἷος ἦν Χαιρεφῶν, ὡς σφοδρὸς ἐφ᾽ ὅτι ὁρμήσειεν. καὶ δή ποτε καὶ εἰς Δελφοὺς ἐλθὼν ἐτόλμησε τοῦτο μαντεύσασθαι—καί, ὅπερ λέγω, μὴ θορυβεῖτε, ὦ ἄνδρες—ἤρετο γὰρ δὴ εἴ τις ἐμοῦ εἴη σοφώτερος. ἀνεῖλεν οὖν ἡ Πυθία μηδένα σοφώτερον εἶναι. καὶ τούτων πέρι ὁ ἀδελφὸς ὑμῖν αὐτοῦ οὑτοσὶ μαρτυρήσει, ἐπειδὴ ἐκεῖνος τετελεύτηκεν.
This man was my companion from boyhood and the companion of you in the many, and he both shared in this banishment and with you was brought back. You know what sort of person Chairephon is, how impetuous in that which he undertook. Once upon a time, going to Delphi, he undertook to seek this oracle - and like I said, don't make an uproar, O men - for he asked if there was someone wiser than me. And so the Pythia responded, there was no one wiser. And concerning these things the brother of him - here - will bear you witness, since he [Chairephon] has met his end.
[21β] σκέψασθε δὴ ὧν ἕνεκα ταῦτα λέγω: μέλλω γὰρ ὑμᾶς διδάξειν ὅθεν μοι ἡ διαβολὴ γέγονεν. ταῦτα γὰρ ἐγὼ ἀκούσας ἐνεθυμούμην οὑτωσί: ‘τί ποτε λέγει ὁ θεός, καὶ τί ποτε αἰνίττεται; ἐγὼ γὰρ δὴ οὔτε μέγα οὔτε σμικρὸν σύνοιδα ἐμαυτῷ σοφὸς ὤν: τί οὖν ποτε λέγει φάσκων ἐμὲ σοφώτατον εἶναι; οὐ γὰρ δήπου ψεύδεταί γε: οὐ γὰρ θέμις αὐτῷ.’ καὶ πολὺν μὲν χρόνον ἠπόρουν τί ποτε λέγει: ἔπειτα μόγις πάνυ ἐπὶ ζήτησιν αὐτοῦ τοιαύτην τινὰ ἐτραπόμην. ἦλθον ἐπί τινα τῶν δοκούντων σοφῶν εἶναι, ὡς
Examine why I say these things: I am about to teach you from where my slander was born. For I upon hearing this, I pondered deeply here indeed: "Whatever does the god say, and whatever is he riddling at? For me, I'm aware that I'm not wise in myself, neither a lot nor a very little: So whatever is he saying, asserting me to be wisest? Surely he's not lying: it is not customary for him." And for a long time I was puzzled by what he said: then with great toil and pain I directed a sort of inquiry concerning such things as he said [interpretation]. I went to one of the ones reputed to be wise,
[21ξ] ἐνταῦθα εἴπερ που ἐλέγξων τὸ μαντεῖον καὶ ἀποφανῶν τῷ χρησμῷ ὅτι ‘οὑτοσὶ ἐμοῦ σοφώτερός ἐστι, σὺ δ᾽ ἐμὲ ἔφησθα.’ διασκοπῶν οὖν τοῦτον—ὀνόματι γὰρ οὐδὲν δέομαι λέγειν, ἦν δέ τις τῶν πολιτικῶν πρὸς ὃν ἐγὼ σκοπῶν τοιοῦτόν τι ἔπαθον, ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι, καὶ διαλεγόμενος αὐτῷ—ἔδοξέ μοι οὗτος ὁ ἀνὴρ δοκεῖν μὲν εἶναι σοφὸς ἄλλοις τε πολλοῖς ἀνθρώποις καὶ μάλιστα ἑαυτῷ, εἶναι δ᾽ οὔ: κἄπειτα ἐπειρώμην αὐτῷ δεικνύναι ὅτι οἴοιτο μὲν εἶναι σοφός, εἴη δ᾽ οὔ.
like here, as if really somehow questioning the oracle and reasoning with the prophecy that, "This man here is wiser than me, but you said I [was wisest.]" So examining this man in different ways - I don't have to speak anyone's name, but he was one of the political men with regard to whom I, considering, experienced something of this kind, O Athenian men, and conversing with him - this man seemed to me to seem to be wise concerning many other men and especially concerning himself, but to not be so: and then I tried to demonstrate to him that while he imagined he was wise, he wasn't.
[21δ] ἐντεῦθεν οὖν τούτῳ τε ἀπηχθόμην καὶ πολλοῖς τῶν παρόντων: πρὸς ἐμαυτὸν δ᾽ οὖν ἀπιὼν ἐλογιζόμην ὅτι τούτου μὲν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐγὼ σοφώτερός εἰμι: κινδυνεύει μὲν γὰρ ἡμῶν οὐδέτερος οὐδὲν καλὸν κἀγαθὸν εἰδέναι, ἀλλ᾽ οὗτος μὲν οἴεταί τι εἰδέναι οὐκ εἰδώς, ἐγὼ δέ, ὥσπερ οὖν οὐκ οἶδα, οὐδὲ οἴομαι: ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰδέναι.
From this, therefore, I incurred his hatred and that of many others who are present: and so to myself, as I was going away, I reckoned that I was wiser at least than this person: for it was possible that neither of us knew anything noble or good, but him, he supposed he knew something while not knowing it, while I, as I didn't know anything, didn't suppose [that I did]: so I seem in some small thing in this itself to be wiser than he, since what I don't know I don't imagine I know."
I think that's eleven sections today. My brain feels burned.
It seems to me that the one who says these things speaks justly, and I'll try to show you what this thing is, which has made name-calling and slander for me. So, listen. And maybe I will seem to some of you to be joking: but indeed know very well, I will speak the whole truth to you. For I, O Athenian men, through nothing else but through a sort of wisdom have acquired this reputation. Well, what sort of wisdom is this? Well, maybe it's a sort of wisdom about human affairs: I have a chance of being wise in respect to this.
οὗτοι δὲ τάχ᾽ ἄν, οὓς ἄρτι [20ε] ἔλεγον, μείζω τινὰ ἢ κατ᾽ ἄνθρωπον σοφίαν σοφοὶ εἶεν, ἢ οὐκ ἔχω τί λέγω: οὐ γὰρ δὴ ἔγωγε αὐτὴν ἐπίσταμαι, ἀλλ᾽ ὅστις φησὶ ψεύδεταί τε καὶ ἐπὶ διαβολῇ τῇ ἐμῇ λέγει. καί μοι, ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι, μὴ θορυβήσητε, μηδ᾽ ἐὰν δόξω τι ὑμῖν μέγα λέγειν: οὐ γὰρ ἐμὸν ἐρῶ τὸν λόγον ὃν ἂν λέγω, ἀλλ᾽ εἰς ἀξιόχρεων ὑμῖν τὸν λέγοντα ἀνοίσω. τῆς γὰρ ἐμῆς, εἰ δή τίς ἐστιν σοφία καὶ οἵα, μάρτυρα ὑμῖν παρέξομαι τὸν θεὸν τὸν ἐν Δελφοῖς. Χαιρεφῶντα γὰρ ἴστε που. οὗτος
And these men present, who I spoke concerning just now, they could be wise in some wisdom greater than human, or I haven't got what I'm saying: for I at least don't know it, but whoever says so lies and speaks slander against me. And don't you be uproaring at me, O Athenian men, even if I seem to you to say something big: for I will not while speaking say a story which is mine, but I will bring up to you a more worthy speaker. For of my [wisdom], if indeed it is any kind of wisdom, I will hand over to you as witness the god, the one in Delphi. For you doubtless know Chairephon.
[21α] ἐμός τε ἑταῖρος ἦν ἐκ νέου καὶ ὑμῶν τῷ πλήθει ἑταῖρός τε καὶ συνέφυγε τὴν φυγὴν ταύτην καὶ μεθ᾽ ὑμῶν κατῆλθε. καὶ ἴστε δὴ οἷος ἦν Χαιρεφῶν, ὡς σφοδρὸς ἐφ᾽ ὅτι ὁρμήσειεν. καὶ δή ποτε καὶ εἰς Δελφοὺς ἐλθὼν ἐτόλμησε τοῦτο μαντεύσασθαι—καί, ὅπερ λέγω, μὴ θορυβεῖτε, ὦ ἄνδρες—ἤρετο γὰρ δὴ εἴ τις ἐμοῦ εἴη σοφώτερος. ἀνεῖλεν οὖν ἡ Πυθία μηδένα σοφώτερον εἶναι. καὶ τούτων πέρι ὁ ἀδελφὸς ὑμῖν αὐτοῦ οὑτοσὶ μαρτυρήσει, ἐπειδὴ ἐκεῖνος τετελεύτηκεν.
This man was my companion from boyhood and the companion of you in the many, and he both shared in this banishment and with you was brought back. You know what sort of person Chairephon is, how impetuous in that which he undertook. Once upon a time, going to Delphi, he undertook to seek this oracle - and like I said, don't make an uproar, O men - for he asked if there was someone wiser than me. And so the Pythia responded, there was no one wiser. And concerning these things the brother of him - here - will bear you witness, since he [Chairephon] has met his end.
[21β] σκέψασθε δὴ ὧν ἕνεκα ταῦτα λέγω: μέλλω γὰρ ὑμᾶς διδάξειν ὅθεν μοι ἡ διαβολὴ γέγονεν. ταῦτα γὰρ ἐγὼ ἀκούσας ἐνεθυμούμην οὑτωσί: ‘τί ποτε λέγει ὁ θεός, καὶ τί ποτε αἰνίττεται; ἐγὼ γὰρ δὴ οὔτε μέγα οὔτε σμικρὸν σύνοιδα ἐμαυτῷ σοφὸς ὤν: τί οὖν ποτε λέγει φάσκων ἐμὲ σοφώτατον εἶναι; οὐ γὰρ δήπου ψεύδεταί γε: οὐ γὰρ θέμις αὐτῷ.’ καὶ πολὺν μὲν χρόνον ἠπόρουν τί ποτε λέγει: ἔπειτα μόγις πάνυ ἐπὶ ζήτησιν αὐτοῦ τοιαύτην τινὰ ἐτραπόμην. ἦλθον ἐπί τινα τῶν δοκούντων σοφῶν εἶναι, ὡς
Examine why I say these things: I am about to teach you from where my slander was born. For I upon hearing this, I pondered deeply here indeed: "Whatever does the god say, and whatever is he riddling at? For me, I'm aware that I'm not wise in myself, neither a lot nor a very little: So whatever is he saying, asserting me to be wisest? Surely he's not lying: it is not customary for him." And for a long time I was puzzled by what he said: then with great toil and pain I directed a sort of inquiry concerning such things as he said [interpretation]. I went to one of the ones reputed to be wise,
[21ξ] ἐνταῦθα εἴπερ που ἐλέγξων τὸ μαντεῖον καὶ ἀποφανῶν τῷ χρησμῷ ὅτι ‘οὑτοσὶ ἐμοῦ σοφώτερός ἐστι, σὺ δ᾽ ἐμὲ ἔφησθα.’ διασκοπῶν οὖν τοῦτον—ὀνόματι γὰρ οὐδὲν δέομαι λέγειν, ἦν δέ τις τῶν πολιτικῶν πρὸς ὃν ἐγὼ σκοπῶν τοιοῦτόν τι ἔπαθον, ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι, καὶ διαλεγόμενος αὐτῷ—ἔδοξέ μοι οὗτος ὁ ἀνὴρ δοκεῖν μὲν εἶναι σοφὸς ἄλλοις τε πολλοῖς ἀνθρώποις καὶ μάλιστα ἑαυτῷ, εἶναι δ᾽ οὔ: κἄπειτα ἐπειρώμην αὐτῷ δεικνύναι ὅτι οἴοιτο μὲν εἶναι σοφός, εἴη δ᾽ οὔ.
like here, as if really somehow questioning the oracle and reasoning with the prophecy that, "This man here is wiser than me, but you said I [was wisest.]" So examining this man in different ways - I don't have to speak anyone's name, but he was one of the political men with regard to whom I, considering, experienced something of this kind, O Athenian men, and conversing with him - this man seemed to me to seem to be wise concerning many other men and especially concerning himself, but to not be so: and then I tried to demonstrate to him that while he imagined he was wise, he wasn't.
[21δ] ἐντεῦθεν οὖν τούτῳ τε ἀπηχθόμην καὶ πολλοῖς τῶν παρόντων: πρὸς ἐμαυτὸν δ᾽ οὖν ἀπιὼν ἐλογιζόμην ὅτι τούτου μὲν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐγὼ σοφώτερός εἰμι: κινδυνεύει μὲν γὰρ ἡμῶν οὐδέτερος οὐδὲν καλὸν κἀγαθὸν εἰδέναι, ἀλλ᾽ οὗτος μὲν οἴεταί τι εἰδέναι οὐκ εἰδώς, ἐγὼ δέ, ὥσπερ οὖν οὐκ οἶδα, οὐδὲ οἴομαι: ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰδέναι.
From this, therefore, I incurred his hatred and that of many others who are present: and so to myself, as I was going away, I reckoned that I was wiser at least than this person: for it was possible that neither of us knew anything noble or good, but him, he supposed he knew something while not knowing it, while I, as I didn't know anything, didn't suppose [that I did]: so I seem in some small thing in this itself to be wiser than he, since what I don't know I don't imagine I know."
I think that's eleven sections today. My brain feels burned.
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Because politicians react so well to that sort of thing...
I've always liked the Apology; there's something impressive about his complete inability to stop snarking even if his life depends on it. Phocion at least waited till all was lost before making quips.
Could you explain to a confused non-Classicist why the vocative is usually rendered, "O so-and-so," instead of just by setting it off with commas? The only inflected language I know has lost the vocative case, so I've never translated it. It seems like it would be more natural as, "For I, Athenian men, through nothing else," but I could be missing something.
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I really appreciate the snark here.
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