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[hawkwing_lb]

Okay. This is a favour for a friend who loves fantasy but has so far been restricted to the (limited) selection available in Irish bookshops. She's looking for fantasy novels with lesbian protagonists, or at least major actors.

My memory might be going, but the only author I could think of off the top of my head was Jane Fletcher. (My friend's into quest fantasy, traditional stuff, otherwise I would have pushed Blood and Iron and Whiskey and Water on her for sheer diversity of cast. May do that yet.) Mary Gentle's Ash has something close, S.M. Stirling's Across the Sea of Time is alternate history, and while I can think of a couple of SF novels that might fit the bill , I'm drawing a blank on the fantasy front.

(I can think of plenty of books with gay protags, but lesbians, not so much.)

So, guys. Who'm I missing?

Comments

[naomikritzer]

I'm pretty sure these would require an Amazon.com order or something, but Fires of the Faithful and Turning the Storm have a lesbian protagonist, and Freedom's Gate, Freedom's Apprentice, and Freedom's Sisters include a bunch of lesbian characters, though they're set in a society where bisexuality is the norm, and everyone's sexuality is pretty fluid.

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

I knew I was forgetting someone!

The sad thing is, all five of those books are on the shelf just across from me. Six, since I have two copies of Fires of the Faithful. (I suppose I should lend her it.) Does aphasia extend to solid objects, I wonder?

Many thanks.

[buymeaclue.livejournal.com]

Normally, with this sort of question, I'll Google up a list to see if there's anything I've read and would recommend that's not coming instantly to mind. Luckily (I'm on a work computer), I realized what I was doing after typing "lesbian fantasy" but before hitting "search."

Heh.

Yeah, I'm struggling a bit here, too. I've got SF books (Nicola Griffith, Kelley Eskridge, Melissa Scott, etc.), if she'd be interested in that?

Kristopher Reisz's Tripping to Somewhere is a YA with a lesbian main character. It's urban fantasy, quite gritty and quite good: http://buymeaclue.livejournal.com/378664.html

I can't remember if there's any explicit (as opposed to implicit, not in the sense of being graphic) lesbianism in Ellen Kushner's The Privilege of the Sword, but it's a fantasy of manners with some definite slashiness (and some explicit bisexual and homosexual men) to it: http://buymeaclue.livejournal.com/393548.html

Griffith edited a couple of Bending the Landscape anthologies (fantasy one here: http://www.amazon.com/Bending-Landscape-Fantasy/dp/1585675768/ref=sr_1_4/105-2734658-9662807?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192737571&sr=1-4) that might be of interest.

I have not read the Laurie Marks series starting with Fire Logic (http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Logic-Laurie-J-Marks/dp/081256653X), but it's getting a lot of good buzz and does have homosexual relationships.

And...that's all I've got.

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

Luckily (I'm on a work computer), I realized what I was doing after typing "lesbian fantasy" but before hitting "search."

...Narrow escape.

I can come up with half a dozen SF off the top of my head, but afaik that's not my friend's thing (or not, at least, what she asked me about).

Thanks. I've just been through my entire collection, and everything else I remember reading, and including Tanya Huff and Kim Harrison, I can count the fantasy books - or at least authors - where I can recall more than walk-on walk-off lesbian/bisexual character without needing to take off my socks, so to speak.

(Elizabeth Bear, Mary Gentle, Jane Fletcher, Naomi Kritzer: fudging will get you Manda Scott, Huff, Harrison and Jacqueline Carey, and I seem to recall at least implicit lesbianism in Alma Alexander's The Secrets of Jin-Shei, but it's been a while since I read it. Maybe Pratchett's Monstrous Regiment, but same goes.)

And I don't think that it's because I'm particularly under-read.

So thanks again. I hadn't heard of Fire Logic et al before; I'll pass that along.

[buymeaclue.livejournal.com]

No, I think you're right. Homo/bisexual males definitely strike me as better-represented in the genre.

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

Wonder why that is.

*sigh*

[cristalia.livejournal.com]

Everything I can think of is either SF or thriller too. I will hazard a generalization that quest fantasy feeds one set of narrative kinks (the hit-the-posts familiar story with a slight bent towards repairing rather than pushing a society?) and lesbian protagonists belong to different sets of narrative kinks?

The above has been a grave generalization for Leah's annoyance at how she can't think of many books like this.

[cristalia.livejournal.com]

Oh wait, shit, you have some in Cat Valente's In the Night Garden. But that's more fairy-tale, but still. :)

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

Recommended? Recommendable? :)

[cristalia.livejournal.com]

Very recommended. My pick for the World Fantasy award this year, but your friend has to like slightly funky nesting-doll structure.

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

Um. Considering that I introduced her to Bujold (Curse of Chalion) just last week, and so far her reading habits (so she said) have been along the lines of Trudi Canavan, Jennifer Fallon, Fiona McIntyre, Robin Hobb... I'm maybe not so sure that funky nesting-doll structure would be the best thing to recommend to her.

*keeps it in reserve*

Yes, I am trying to convert people to the good, complex and thinky crack that only gets stocked here when people special-order it. (No disrespect to the above authors intended.) Why do you ask? :P

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

Lending weight to the (for which read mine, opinionated) thesis that quest-ish type fantasy is an inherently conservative sub-genre.

But you know, it doesn't need to be. And I really think it shouldn't be this hard to find a decent second-world fantasy with a lesbian protagonist. Or major actor. Doesn't even need to be the main character; a speaking part with genuine character development is the bar it has to reach.

Oh, well. At least I can point her towards something, anyway.

[cristalia.livejournal.com]

We ought to write some. Clearly there's a hole in the market here.

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

We should.

[stillsostrange.livejournal.com]

We should!

I've actually had an idea for a sort of anti-bildungsroman-quest-fantasy with lesbian MC for a while now, but it's back toward the end of the queue.

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

Well, this is what happens when I go travelling and don't look at LJ for a while. You ask the good questions and all the good answers get taken.

Le sigh.

I shall review my extensive collection of books and see if I can add anything to your list. Oh, and the Gael Baudino I would start with is the stand-alone Gossamer Axe, which contains not only a main character who is lesbian but also has a female rock band. The "axe" in the title refers to a guitar. ;-)

No one mentioned Marion Zimmer Bradley, did they? I saw Mercedes Lackey above. Other than the aforementioned MZB and ML, Tanya Huff, Nicola Griffith, E. Bear and Ellen Kushner, there's not very many books with lesbians as major characters. There's even fewer SF books with major lesbian characters. There's a bunch of single books -- one is trying to get out in the open, but my memory is failing here -- in which women are at least somewhat lesbian. Oh, John Varley (Titan, Wizard, and Demon) is decent. Joanna Russ, but most of her stuff is OOP. James Tiptree, Jr (aka Alice Sheldon) is not your usual science fiction. Jack Chalker did a lot of gender and species changing of characters, so that might be worth taking a look at. His series on the Well of Souls is the earliest of his iterations on that topic. Of course, our own Dave Freer will have Slowtrain, so make sure you get at least one copy of that. Suzette Haden Elgin had strong female characters in her Native Tongue series, but no overt lesbians. Jessica Amanda Salmonsen might be found in the used books. Joan Slonczewski, Door into Ocean. Octavia Butler...Marge Piercy (more of a fiction novelist, but has lesbian characters in many books)...Melissa Scott! How could I forget Melissa Scott? You must find her books. And Elizabeth Lynn, although her books are also OOP.

Eleanor Arnason was the name I was trying to remember earlier. Joe Haldeman (Forever War), Nancy Kress, Severna Park (pseudonym), Katherine Forrest (crappy SF but hey -- lesbian!)..

Oh, and Emma Bull had one book about a genderless protagonist. Bone Dance, I think it was.

I must go look through my shelves tonight..only the parental units are visiting and I really should focus on them. Drat.

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

Sadly, my friend is only just moving beyond the borders of traditional fantasy. So I'm trying to find recommendations that will fit her tastes.

One thing I'm curious about: you mention Lackey, but I've read quite a bit of Lackey, and I don't recall a lesbian protag, or a lesbian character with actual character development. Gay characters and a general acceptance of non-straight relationships, yes, but no one with an actual narrative arc, as such. Have I missed something?

I can come up with SF recs, and strong women a-plenty (hell, I don't really keep books without strong women anymore, unless they have Historical Value), but non-straight female main characters seem to be largely absent in, you know, quest fantasy.

*makes a list*

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

Oh, in the early Valdemar books, Misty has some clearly lesbian supporting characters -- they are still around in the later books, but you might miss the lesbian interactions since they're not important to the plot. The Talia books, Arrows -- that's where the women are.

Yes, non-straight female and main character just do not go together for most books.

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

Oh, I remember the lesbian characters - the name escapes me, but one's a mother/mentor figure to Talia, right? - but not as having an actual arc.

Which seems a low bar to aim for, really. But maybe I've just been spoiled by the diversity in Bear's stuff and the short fiction I've read online.

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

One of them was indeed a semi-mother figure, but another one was also a close friend of Talia's. Sherril? Something like that. There was a subplot about the partners and one dying on patrol and so on. Back in the 80s, this was a very daring story. ;-)

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

Also, I find MZB to be very unfortunately an artefact of a - shall we say earlier? - time.

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

Well, yes. Sadly. Also, she was of a strange bent herself, and not really honest about things, and it was all just a huge mess. But her trilogy (Shattered Chain, Thendara House, and something else) were a big deal for me in the late 80s. Ah, you children don't know what it was like back then. ;-)

[hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com]

No offence, but I'm rather glad to have missed most of the dark ages before the nineties. :P

(Seeing as this crazy country got around to legalising sodomy and letting women into the military in the same year: 1991.)

Strange bent, really?

I can't in good conscience recommend something I found in parts to be severely twisted - much the same as I can't in good conscience recommend Anne McCaffrey even to younger readers now. Not since realising that what F'lar did to Lessa in Dragonflight was rape, and her falling in love with him and it being framed as a happy ending was really rather icky. Leaving quite aside the green dragonrider problem, as matociquala puts it.

Have you read Jane Fletcher, by the way? Because someday I'd like to find someone else who has, and compare reactions. :P

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

I'd forgotten about the rape of Lessa -- I don't read any McCaffrey these days. No, MZB didn't write quite like that, but her personal life was odd, no matter what anyone says. She did have very strong female characters, and for a short period in her writing life she had some pretty decent books. Even though I haven't read them in years, I still remember Stormqueen, Thendara House, and I think the last one in that trilogy was City of Sorcery. They resonated in ways that her other books didn't. Her characters resonated -- and still do, in memory. Her society and her geography didn't make much sense -- never did -- but I could live with that.

You missed those dark ages because of the women who went before you...I am glad to have missed the really dark ages of the 40s - 60s, when lesbian characters all ended in sordid deaths, and had really miserable lives. Blech. Gale Wilhelm was noted for her "happy endings" and quite frankly I found her books depressing. The late 80s and early 90s had an explosion of lesbian fiction which in retrospect is quite shallow and really not good reading. However, in those days, the books were a breath of fresh air, and I welcomed them unquestioningly. ;-) These days, not so much -- I am very tired of "girl meets girl and has happy endings". One of my early posts in LJ discusses my classification scheme for lesbian fiction. There's still books being published that fit into the "1st wave", which is what all the 80s and early 90s books were like. I prefer books that have plot, characterization, and are based on lesbian characters, and not ones focused on women finding twu wuv.

Question: how come you aren't including Melissa Scott on your final list? She may be more "hard science fiction", but I really don't like those artificial separations, and besides, she writes strong female (lesbian and straight) characters, in a variety of settings. It's your list, so I'm not complaining, just asking. ;-)

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

Oh, er, Jane Fletcher...I'd have to go back to my archives and see. The name sounds very familiar but I haven't read her recently.