Plato, Apology, 25e middle - 26b
Oct. 16th, 2012 07:24 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
hawkwing_lb[25ε] ταῦτα ἐγώ σοι οὐ πείθομαι, ὦ Μέλητε, οἶμαι δὲ οὐδὲ ἄλλον ἀνθρώπων οὐδένα: ἀλλ᾽ ἢ οὐ διαφθείρω, ἢ εἰ διαφθείρω,
With respect to these things I by you am not persuaded, O Meletos, and I think no other man is persuaded either: but either I am not ruining, or if I am ruining, [I am doing it]
[26α] ἄκων, ὥστε σύ γε κατ᾽ ἀμφότερα ψεύδῃ. εἰ δὲ ἄκων διαφθείρω, τῶν τοιούτων καὶ ἀκουσίων ἁμαρτημάτων οὐ δεῦρο νόμος εἰσάγειν ἐστίν, ἀλλὰ ἰδίᾳ λαβόντα διδάσκειν καὶ νουθετεῖν: δῆλον γὰρ ὅτι ἐὰν μάθω, παύσομαι ὅ γε ἄκων ποιῶ. σὺ δὲ συγγενέσθαι μέν μοι καὶ διδάξαι ἔφυγες καὶ οὐκ ἠθέλησας, δεῦρο δὲ εἰσάγεις, οἷ νόμος ἐστὶν εἰσάγειν τοὺς κολάσεως δεομένους ἀλλ᾽ οὐ μαθήσεως.
ἀλλὰ γάρ, ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι, τοῦτο μὲν ἤδη δῆλον
involuntarily, so that you indeed are lying on both counts. And if I ruin involuntarily, the law does not introduce even such kinds of involuntary sins here, but that I took upon myself to teach and to advise: for it's clear that if I would have understood, I would cease that which I do involuntarily. And you fled and you did not want to keep company with me and to instruct [me], and you introduce here that which the law is [requires you?] to introduce with respect to the ones in need of correction but not [to the ones in need of] learning.
For but, O Athenian men, already this is clear
[26β] οὑγὼ ἔλεγον, ὅτι Μελήτῳ τούτων οὔτε μέγα οὔτε μικρὸν πώποτε ἐμέλησεν. ὅμως δὲ δὴ λέγε ἡμῖν, πῶς με φῂς διαφθείρειν, ὦ Μέλητε, τοὺς νεωτέρους; ἢ δῆλον δὴ ὅτι κατὰ τὴν γραφὴν ἣν ἐγράψω θεοὺς διδάσκοντα μὴ νομίζειν οὓς ἡ πόλις νομίζει, ἕτερα δὲ δαιμόνια καινά; οὐ ταῦτα λέγεις ὅτι διδάσκων διαφθείρω;
πάνυ μὲν οὖν σφόδρα ταῦτα λέγω.
πρὸς αὐτῶν τοίνυν, ὦ Μέλητε, τούτων τῶν θεῶν ὧν νῦν ὁ λόγος ἐστίν, εἰπὲ ἔτι σαφέστερον καὶ ἐμοὶ καὶ τοῖς ἀνδράσιν
[with respect to what] I for my part said, that Meletos had no care whatsoever, neither a lot nor a little, for these things. Nevertheless, then, tell us, how you say I am destroying, O Meletos, the young men? Is it then clear that, according to the graphe which I write for my own use, that I teach not to consider the gods which the city considers, but a new different divinity? Don't you say that by teaching these things, I ruin?
"Indeed, of course I say these things."
Proceeding from them, therefore, O Meletos, for these gods of which now the reason is, say yet more clearly for me and also for these men here.
With respect to these things I by you am not persuaded, O Meletos, and I think no other man is persuaded either: but either I am not ruining, or if I am ruining, [I am doing it]
[26α] ἄκων, ὥστε σύ γε κατ᾽ ἀμφότερα ψεύδῃ. εἰ δὲ ἄκων διαφθείρω, τῶν τοιούτων καὶ ἀκουσίων ἁμαρτημάτων οὐ δεῦρο νόμος εἰσάγειν ἐστίν, ἀλλὰ ἰδίᾳ λαβόντα διδάσκειν καὶ νουθετεῖν: δῆλον γὰρ ὅτι ἐὰν μάθω, παύσομαι ὅ γε ἄκων ποιῶ. σὺ δὲ συγγενέσθαι μέν μοι καὶ διδάξαι ἔφυγες καὶ οὐκ ἠθέλησας, δεῦρο δὲ εἰσάγεις, οἷ νόμος ἐστὶν εἰσάγειν τοὺς κολάσεως δεομένους ἀλλ᾽ οὐ μαθήσεως.
ἀλλὰ γάρ, ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι, τοῦτο μὲν ἤδη δῆλον
involuntarily, so that you indeed are lying on both counts. And if I ruin involuntarily, the law does not introduce even such kinds of involuntary sins here, but that I took upon myself to teach and to advise: for it's clear that if I would have understood, I would cease that which I do involuntarily. And you fled and you did not want to keep company with me and to instruct [me], and you introduce here that which the law is [requires you?] to introduce with respect to the ones in need of correction but not [to the ones in need of] learning.
For but, O Athenian men, already this is clear
[26β] οὑγὼ ἔλεγον, ὅτι Μελήτῳ τούτων οὔτε μέγα οὔτε μικρὸν πώποτε ἐμέλησεν. ὅμως δὲ δὴ λέγε ἡμῖν, πῶς με φῂς διαφθείρειν, ὦ Μέλητε, τοὺς νεωτέρους; ἢ δῆλον δὴ ὅτι κατὰ τὴν γραφὴν ἣν ἐγράψω θεοὺς διδάσκοντα μὴ νομίζειν οὓς ἡ πόλις νομίζει, ἕτερα δὲ δαιμόνια καινά; οὐ ταῦτα λέγεις ὅτι διδάσκων διαφθείρω;
πάνυ μὲν οὖν σφόδρα ταῦτα λέγω.
πρὸς αὐτῶν τοίνυν, ὦ Μέλητε, τούτων τῶν θεῶν ὧν νῦν ὁ λόγος ἐστίν, εἰπὲ ἔτι σαφέστερον καὶ ἐμοὶ καὶ τοῖς ἀνδράσιν
[with respect to what] I for my part said, that Meletos had no care whatsoever, neither a lot nor a little, for these things. Nevertheless, then, tell us, how you say I am destroying, O Meletos, the young men? Is it then clear that, according to the graphe which I write for my own use, that I teach not to consider the gods which the city considers, but a new different divinity? Don't you say that by teaching these things, I ruin?
"Indeed, of course I say these things."
Proceeding from them, therefore, O Meletos, for these gods of which now the reason is, say yet more clearly for me and also for these men here.
