Plato, Apology, 27a end-27c
Oct. 19th, 2012 09:37 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
hawkwing_lb[27a]συνεπισκέψασθε δή, ὦ ἄνδρες, ᾗ μοι φαίνεται ταῦτα λέγειν: σὺ δὲ ἡμῖν ἀπόκριναι, ὦ Μέλητε. ὑμεῖς δέ, ὅπερ
Reckon up for yourselves, then, O men, for which [why] he appears to me to say these things: and you answer us, O Meletos. And you [plural], with respect to the very thing which
[27β] κατ᾽ ἀρχὰς ὑμᾶς παρῃτησάμην, μέμνησθέ μοι μὴ θορυβεῖν ἐὰν ἐν τῷ εἰωθότι τρόπῳ τοὺς λόγους ποιῶμαι.
ἔστιν ὅστις ἀνθρώπων, ὦ Μέλητε, ἀνθρώπεια μὲν νομίζει πράγματ᾽ εἶναι, ἀνθρώπους δὲ οὐ νομίζει; ἀποκρινέσθω, ὦ ἄνδρες, καὶ μὴ ἄλλα καὶ ἄλλα θορυβείτω: ἔσθ᾽ ὅστις ἵππους μὲν οὐ νομίζει, ἱππικὰ δὲ πράγματα; ἢ αὐλητὰς μὲν οὐ νομίζει εἶναι, αὐλητικὰ δὲ πράγματα; οὐκ ἔστιν, ὦ ἄριστε ἀνδρῶν: εἰ μὴ σὺ βούλει ἀποκρίνεσθαι, ἐγὼ σοὶ λέγω καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις τουτοισί. ἀλλὰ τὸ ἐπὶ τούτῳ γε ἀπόκριναι:
I've begged of you from the beginning, remind yourselves for me not to make an uproar if I make my arguments in my accustomed manner.
Who is it among men, O Meletos, thinks human concerns exist, and does not think human beings exist? Let it be answered, O men, and let no uproar be made in any way: is there anyone who doesn't think horses exist, but thinks equestrian things do? Or who doesn't think flute-players exist, but thinks flute-playing things do? There is not, O best of men: if you don't want to answer, I tell you and these others here. But answer it at least in on this:
[27ξ] ἔσθ᾽ ὅστις δαιμόνια μὲν νομίζει πράγματ᾽ εἶναι, δαίμονας δὲ οὐ νομίζει;
οὐκ ἔστιν.
ὡς ὤνησας ὅτι μόγις ἀπεκρίνω ὑπὸ τουτωνὶ ἀναγκαζόμενος. οὐκοῦν δαιμόνια μὲν φῄς με καὶ νομίζειν καὶ διδάσκειν, εἴτ᾽ οὖν καινὰ εἴτε παλαιά, ἀλλ᾽ οὖν δαιμόνιά γε νομίζω κατὰ τὸν σὸν λόγον, καὶ ταῦτα καὶ διωμόσω ἐν τῇ ἀντιγραφῇ. εἰ δὲ δαιμόνια νομίζω, καὶ δαίμονας δήπου πολλὴ ἀνάγκη νομίζειν μέ ἐστιν: οὐχ οὕτως ἔχει; ἔχει δή: τίθημι γάρ σε ὁμολογοῦντα, ἐπειδὴ οὐκ ἀποκρίνῃ.
Is there someone who thinks spiritual things exist, but does not think spirits exist?
There is not.
As you benefit, that you scarcely answer being compelled by these here. So you say I think and teach spiritual things do not exist, either in fact new or old, but in fact I think - according to your argument - spirits do exist, and these things you even swear on oath in the indictment. And if I think spirits exist, perhaps it is even very necessary for me to think spirits exist: does it not hold in this way? Indeed it holds so. For I take up the position that you're agreeing, since you don't reply.
Reckon up for yourselves, then, O men, for which [why] he appears to me to say these things: and you answer us, O Meletos. And you [plural], with respect to the very thing which
[27β] κατ᾽ ἀρχὰς ὑμᾶς παρῃτησάμην, μέμνησθέ μοι μὴ θορυβεῖν ἐὰν ἐν τῷ εἰωθότι τρόπῳ τοὺς λόγους ποιῶμαι.
ἔστιν ὅστις ἀνθρώπων, ὦ Μέλητε, ἀνθρώπεια μὲν νομίζει πράγματ᾽ εἶναι, ἀνθρώπους δὲ οὐ νομίζει; ἀποκρινέσθω, ὦ ἄνδρες, καὶ μὴ ἄλλα καὶ ἄλλα θορυβείτω: ἔσθ᾽ ὅστις ἵππους μὲν οὐ νομίζει, ἱππικὰ δὲ πράγματα; ἢ αὐλητὰς μὲν οὐ νομίζει εἶναι, αὐλητικὰ δὲ πράγματα; οὐκ ἔστιν, ὦ ἄριστε ἀνδρῶν: εἰ μὴ σὺ βούλει ἀποκρίνεσθαι, ἐγὼ σοὶ λέγω καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις τουτοισί. ἀλλὰ τὸ ἐπὶ τούτῳ γε ἀπόκριναι:
I've begged of you from the beginning, remind yourselves for me not to make an uproar if I make my arguments in my accustomed manner.
Who is it among men, O Meletos, thinks human concerns exist, and does not think human beings exist? Let it be answered, O men, and let no uproar be made in any way: is there anyone who doesn't think horses exist, but thinks equestrian things do? Or who doesn't think flute-players exist, but thinks flute-playing things do? There is not, O best of men: if you don't want to answer, I tell you and these others here. But answer it at least in on this:
[27ξ] ἔσθ᾽ ὅστις δαιμόνια μὲν νομίζει πράγματ᾽ εἶναι, δαίμονας δὲ οὐ νομίζει;
οὐκ ἔστιν.
ὡς ὤνησας ὅτι μόγις ἀπεκρίνω ὑπὸ τουτωνὶ ἀναγκαζόμενος. οὐκοῦν δαιμόνια μὲν φῄς με καὶ νομίζειν καὶ διδάσκειν, εἴτ᾽ οὖν καινὰ εἴτε παλαιά, ἀλλ᾽ οὖν δαιμόνιά γε νομίζω κατὰ τὸν σὸν λόγον, καὶ ταῦτα καὶ διωμόσω ἐν τῇ ἀντιγραφῇ. εἰ δὲ δαιμόνια νομίζω, καὶ δαίμονας δήπου πολλὴ ἀνάγκη νομίζειν μέ ἐστιν: οὐχ οὕτως ἔχει; ἔχει δή: τίθημι γάρ σε ὁμολογοῦντα, ἐπειδὴ οὐκ ἀποκρίνῃ.
Is there someone who thinks spiritual things exist, but does not think spirits exist?
There is not.
As you benefit, that you scarcely answer being compelled by these here. So you say I think and teach spiritual things do not exist, either in fact new or old, but in fact I think - according to your argument - spirits do exist, and these things you even swear on oath in the indictment. And if I think spirits exist, perhaps it is even very necessary for me to think spirits exist: does it not hold in this way? Indeed it holds so. For I take up the position that you're agreeing, since you don't reply.
